walking away from mortgages

On Feb 8, 7:35 pm, Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
> On Feb 9, 7:15 am, wrote:
>
> > An article about people walking away from their mortgages, who are not
> > in financial dire straits. Is this a start to a new trend in people
> > walking away from responsibility, as if it was nothing and with no
> > social stigma?
>
> >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/08/EDL2UU85A...
>
> You hafta start readinghttp://patrick.net/housing/crash.html

Who would have thought that somebody who has a million bucks in the
bank with no outstanding debts on their credits cards, is willing to
deliberately foreclose on their mortgage? Is there absolutely no
shame left anymore in bankruptcy in america? (Whatever little shame
there was still left over in recent times).
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 8, 4:15 pm, wrote:
>
> An article about people walking away from their mortgages, who are not
> in financial dire straits. Is this a start to a new trend in people
> walking away from responsibility, as if it was nothing and with no
> social stigma?
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/08/EDL2UU85A...
>

*****************************************************************************************************************************************
A Federal Reserve survey in January 2008 found that loan officers
"are concerned with borrowers' reduced motivation to retain possession
of their properties."
*****************************************************************************************************************************************

Well, it is a simple arithmetics. Property nowadays it is nothing more
than a sworn obligation to pay property taxes. In many instances
acquiring property and keeping means HUGE financial loss for a person
over long period of time. The moment people realized that is the
moments they lost interest.
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 8, 1:15 pm, wrote:
> An article about people walking away from their mortgages, who are not
> in financial dire straits.  Is this a start to a new trend in people
> walking away from responsibility, as if it was nothing and with no
> social stigma?
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/08/EDL2UU85A...

times are changing fast... with good jobs being offshored, and
medical care out the roof (accounting for 70% of bankrupsies) the
stigma is fast fading.. My cousin recently was in the hospital, an
operation... cost for the operating room alone, not the doctors,
nurses or anesthesia guy... $127,000 Most peoples life savings
under a million dollars lasts about a week in many cases, sometimes a
year... especially if their job has been offshored. and insurance
btw not available for pre existing conditions, even with insurance a
10 to 20% fraction of the bill not paid.... so its all gone.

to pay whom? the doctors? nah... to pay a single CEO of just one
of the HMO's a few hundred million dollars a year etc.. you
see? So that those caught up in the mess are not complete slime
balls... no stigma.


similar with the sub prime lending market... with jobs paying less and
less, and good ones going offshore, and a need for homes and govts
need for a good economy THEY made money loose at the FED level...with
orders to the member banks to lend it on lose terms 'to stimulate the
economy'.... so those with downsized wages, needing a place to live
and all that, and rents higher than mortgages....took the loans...
not entirely inexcusable you see.

no stigma.


now to change the subject entirely... it was was on the radio this AM
some MD being interviewed... girls going into puberty now at age 7 and
8, some at age 5.... the ramifications of that do not bode well for a
civil / moral society.. (the reason, growth hormones in the food
supply meat and milk and the over use of soy protien).. accordingly
the AMA or whichever has moved the normal puberty age from 12 to 9
years in girls..

The combo of this and crashed economy and the trend to a welfare
state accelerated by this will produce the brave new world.... really
brave seeing as how the national debt obligation over the next 20
years is 50 trillion dollars (and growing exponentially).


so that.......... there will be no stigma at all in going broke... and
less and less stigma for being a criminal, at least it pays... govt
in my view sees this coming quite clearly so is preparing for such a
mess. It will take total control of the population to preculde
chaos is their thinking no doubt.




Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 7:41 am, Old Pif wrote:
> On Feb 8, 4:15 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
> > An article about people walking away from their mortgages, who are not
> > in financial dire straits.  Is this a start to a new trend in people
> > walking away from responsibility, as if it was nothing and with no
> > social stigma?
>
> >http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/08/EDL2UU85A....
>
> ***************************************************************************­**************************************************************
>  A Federal Reserve survey in January 2008 found that loan officers
> "are concerned with borrowers' reduced motivation to retain possession
> of their properties."
> ***************************************************************************­**************************************************************
>
> Well, it is a simple arithmetics. Property nowadays it is nothing more
> than a sworn obligation to pay property taxes. In many instances
> acquiring property and keeping means HUGE financial loss for a person
> over long period of time. The moment people realized that is the
> moments they lost interest.

dang.... I was seeing it this way maybe 10 years ago or earlier...
but then ppty prices went out the roof and I missed out on all that
profit....... so now we see the old timers that bought earlier having
to take out seconds or do a reverse mortage to pay the ppty taxes and
upkeep... and now as prices drop they are in the red...no loan
potential,..or worse if they got sick and paid out even 50k or so in
medical bills and bought a new car... they are back in debt for the
ppty taxes, cant sell, without owing money.

its messy. I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
source of govt revenue.


With 77 million boomers downsizing their homes for tax or other
reasons, there will be a glut on the market.... moving in will be the
7 to 10 dollar an hour illegal imigrants....not so bad... the Tijuanna
culture arrives in the US. I was just there you know...getting mahh
teeef fixed... 2k...would have cost 7k or more in the US, maybe 10k.
they did a great job... the ambiance in Tijuanna was superb... just
across the street from my hotel was Sanborns Cafe (owned by Carlos
Slim... one of the richest guys in the world),... the new major,
forgot his name, runs one fo the nations largest drug cartels... I
spoke to the locals a lot... they expected a blood bath the day he got
elected as the other cartels were machine gunned out of town....

the police situation in Tijuanna was world class as well... 4 officers
in the back of pickup trucks carrying automatic weapons cruize
Revolucion ave....a main drag, one street over is the Revolucion
Cafe, with dusty photos and hand drawn time line of thier
revolutionary on the wall... a mix of dusty gun slingers, farmers,
and el capitans sitting around on sofa's...1800's wrought iron
chandeliers and shades of the old dirt floor...with well worn
laminated place mats at the tables featuring arithmetic lessons......4
dollars got you a world class chille releno dinner. and a sullen
watress who spole no english but *glowed when you asked if the large
picture of Che Guevra on the wall was indeed he... so then, you
see..... she glowed.


... in that fashion.


Revolution comes to america.


Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 4:31 pm, phil scott wrote:

>
> its messy. I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
> slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
> going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
> property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
> source of govt revenue.
>

In the place I live property taxes force people to leave. It is
absolutely hart-breaking. Old couple who lived all their lives at
their houses could not afford their own home. Incomprehensible.
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 3:04 pm, Old Pif wrote:
> On Feb 9, 4:31 pm, phil scott wrote:
>
>
>
> > its messy.     I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
> > slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
> > going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
> > property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
> > source of govt revenue.
>
> In the place I live property taxes force people to leave. It is
> absolutely hart-breaking. Old couple who lived all their lives at
> their houses could not afford their own home. Incomprehensible.


I knew it was coming, and it has come in a few areas that I was aware
of , up to 700% increase in taxes in New Hampsire (via the 'view tax
factor'.) but was not aware that it was hitting broadly yet.

it must though if local gov is to fund itself, as it pays out
horendous new retirements (50% of tax base in many cities)... rank and
file police at 100 to 150k a year. (chiefs at quarter million dollars
a year.... 100k if they are on the job less than 2 years... so these
are rotating nationally and adding 100k each time).

dey calls that law enforcement... did you know that these, and
prison guards, and firemen can also buy your seized house at half of
the next highest private bid? Thats in the SF bay area for sure.
Probably in the entire state. Other states may operate likewise.



... but amazingly their medical costs states are the most
costly... the tax base paying for this is retired at an average of
900 dollars a month..thats looking back. Forward ilooking s
probably a bit more. about a fifth of the civil service
retirements... no way in hell to pay the police 150k or so to retire
from that tax base.



Where do these old folks driven out of their homes live? what with
900 dollars or less per month coming in? Thats going to be headline
news shortly.



Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 3:04 pm, Old Pif wrote:
> On Feb 9, 4:31 pm, phil scott wrote:
>
>
>
> > its messy.     I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
> > slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
> > going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
> > property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
> > source of govt revenue.
>
> In the place I live property taxes force people to leave. It is
> absolutely hart-breaking. Old couple who lived all their lives at
> their houses could not afford their own home. Incomprehensible.



I figured out last decade that actual home ownership was not possible
since it could be seized by the state or federal govt for any genuine
or bogus tax claim... or for a legitimate claim of not paying ppty
taxes etc... it appears that with ppty dropping in value, and a glut
of it coming onto the market with 77 million new retirees over the
next 5 years or so... that its much more of a liability than anything
else. and a person is stuck to the area where his ppty is.

a mobile life style offers vast relief from that, and opens the
business/ employement doors wider.



Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 6:21 pm, phil scott wrote:

>
> I figured out last decade that actual home ownership was not possible
> since it could be seized by the state or federal govt for any genuine
> or bogus tax claim... or for a legitimate claim of not paying ppty
> taxes etc... it appears that with ppty dropping in value, and a glut
> of it coming onto the market with 77 million new retirees over the
> next 5 years or so... that its much more of a liability than anything
> else. and a person is stuck to the area where his ppty is.
>
> a mobile life style offers vast relief from that, and opens the
> business/ employment doors wider.
>
> Phil Scott

Regrettably, it is not all. Your house could be seized and given to a
private enterprise that promises to pay high taxes:

http://www.ij.org/private_property/connecticut/
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

> dey calls that law enforcement... did you know that these, and
> prison guards, and firemen can also buy your seized house at half of
> the next highest private bid? Thats in the SF bay area for sure.
> Probably in the entire state. Other states may operate likewise.

There's no such thing as "private property" in the absolute sense.

> ... but amazingly their medical costs states are the most
> costly... the tax base paying for this is retired at an average of
> 900 dollars a month..thats looking back.

Some folks move to a small town or rural area to retire.
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 9, 3:30 pm, Old Pif wrote:
> On Feb 9, 6:21 pm, phil scott wrote:
>
>
>
> > I figured out last decade that actual home ownership was not possible
> > since it could be seized by the state or federal govt for any genuine
> > or bogus tax claim... or for a legitimate claim of not paying ppty
> > taxes etc... it appears that with ppty dropping in value, and a glut
> > of it coming onto the market with 77 million new retirees over the
> > next 5 years or so... that its much more of a liability than anything
> > else.   and a person is stuck to the area where his ppty is.
>
> > a mobile life style offers vast relief from that, and opens the
> > business/ employment doors wider.
>
> > Phil Scott
>
> Regrettably, it is not all. Your house could be seized and given to a
> private enterprise that promises to pay high taxes:
>
> http://www.ij.org/private_property/connecticut/


The confisccation of private ppty will no doubt get worse for a while,
then abate as the supporting population is driven to collapse... and
the nation right behind it.

It is my observation that government or a corporation run by its
founders stays sane in some cases...after the time of the founders an
army of burocrats take over, with only their personal short term
interests in mind, a wage or position and retirement...these then
become leaches on the culture.... in time they turn canceraous as the
'cells'..(operating basis) morph in their own self interst as with a
cancer...to become malignant tumors...... govt in that case has become
criminally insane.


these ruin their hosts in short order... a study of history reveals
the staging and time frames... we are in the very lastest stages of
those here in the US...and our govt is ramping towards ruthlessness to
handle it.. ruthlessness howwever ruins entrepreneurial spirit, and
of course the nation that depended on it.


Nature has the perfect solution... it lets the insane self
destruct...then from the raw materials over several hundred years, the
next batch of tweekers rise.


Phil Scott
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

> It is my observation that government or a corporation run by its
> founders stays sane in some cases...after the time of the founders an
> army of burocrats take over, with only their personal short term
> interests in mind, a wage or position and retirement...these then
> become leaches on the culture.... in time they turn canceraous as the
> 'cells'..(operating basis) morph in their own self interst as with a
> cancer...to become malignant tumors...... govt in that case has become
> criminally insane.
>
> these ruin their hosts in short order... a study of history reveals
> the staging and time frames... we are in the very lastest stages of
> those here in the US...and our govt is ramping towards ruthlessness to
> handle it.. ruthlessness howwever ruins entrepreneurial spirit, and
> of course the nation that depended on it.

Maybe their intention was the create a Nazi style state all along?
All the stuff about entrepreneurial spirit wasn't much more than
Goebbels' style propaganda.
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 10, 9:04 am, Old Pif wrote:
> On Feb 9, 4:31 pm, phil scott wrote:
>
>
>
> > its messy.     I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
> > slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
> > going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
> > property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
> > source of govt revenue.
>
> In the place I live property taxes force people to leave. It is
> absolutely hart-breaking. Old couple who lived all their lives at
> their houses could not afford their own home. Incomprehensible.

Why are they leaving ? They cannot afford property taxes anymore ?

On that note, I recalled about around 1997 when my PhD advisor bought
a huge house (he had family money) which I estimated to be $1.5M. (Now
this house probably cost $5M.) Every year, he organized a party for
his PhD students and postdocs, so this was how I saw it. So I went
around the house, and I thought: "Keep it in order; I will eventually
buy it".

The following years proved that I was far away from the truth as I
struggled in years of unemployment and in few months-long employments.
But now I suddenly see light at the end of the tunnel; the old farts
will probably leave the place in droves unable to pay the taxes, so
this is how I will get their prime houses for my salary of a permanent
employee... uhm... of a junior scientist... (not too convincing, isn't
it ?).
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages 

On Feb 13, 3:17 am, Beladi Nasrallah wrote:
> On Feb 10, 9:04 am, Old Pif wrote:
>
> > On Feb 9, 4:31 pm, phil scott wrote:
>
> > > its messy. I spotted it on two different vectors...noticing the
> > > slime bags that were attracted, and noticing the trend in mfg and jobs
> > > going offshore... no way in hell to support a tax base on that..... so
> > > property tax and vastly increased 'fees'... would become the prime
> > > source of govt revenue.
>
> > In the place I live property taxes force people to leave. It is
> > absolutely hart-breaking. Old couple who lived all their lives at
> > their houses could not afford their own home. Incomprehensible.
>
> Why are they leaving ? They cannot afford property taxes anymore ?
>

Some of them don't. Loss of employment or serious health problems.
Some others can afford the taxes per se but in combination with other
things can not sustain the required level of payments and have to
choose.
 >> Stay informed about: walking away from mortgages